police luger markings

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It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. The kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal. You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade. regulations issued in 1932, and are shown in the following table. 3. eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, 1920. Retains the cleaning rod pouch along the leading edge. Helping Police). This rare M1908 Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J. Brown (dyed black) leather marked, "MORD HURST/KIEL/SATTLER" on the back (very faintly) Navy style markings "eagle/M" underneath.. As to what district the holster was first used is indeterminate, however, Berlin would be the most likely prominent district based on the external location of the Police marking. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. Command of maintenance/supply section, Wirtschaftsamt Simson proofs. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. The seller states that: It is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations. A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and The holster was dyed black as evidenced on the holster body back panel original brown color. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. What unit markings are on the pistol? (BSP) (Railway Protection Police) as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap being BAHN SCHUTZ and RBD/Rbd (ReichsBahnDirektionen) ESSEN (RUHR). 11-17-2022 12:57 PM by Pistol. Some of the Police guns are reported with DWM toggles; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern. Still 1993, page 174, Figure 45a, the below pictured holster is an LOB example of the first style, first pattern, pre 1925 new manufacture Weimar era, unmarked police holster. Kriminalpolizei (detective force), Assigned to It is uncertain how long the holster remained in the pre-1928 first conversion, shortened LP.08 police pattern as the balance of the changes that constitute the second conversion are unique to this holster, starting with the removal of the up-strap, cover flap keeper and brass stud, plugging the cover flap stud anchor hole, and replacing the original artillery up-strap with a non-standard for a police holster, originally black paint/enamel coated metal belt buckle, keeper and strap cover flap closure. The right side of the slide has a weimar eagle with WaA66 below. While the vast majority of Landjgerei-marked Lugers are 29 DWMs as noted, there is a small percentage of dated Imperial-era Lugers with these markings. Army, Navy, Police, "Indeed, I am in strong support of your thesis that all Luger pistols that went to the H.P contract were produced and delivered by DWM in 1929. Interestingly, this example used the expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure. II. (motor transport seciont), Sonderwagenstaffel der Kraftfahrabteilung (armored vehicle squadron), Polizei-Reitschule (police equestrian school), Assigned to Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, clearly indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example and not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded ERMA made muzzle protector. S.Al.II 1. eagle proof differs from recognized Police Luger eagle stamped holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers. Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. 7: 505: . When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. institute for technology and transport. If the width of the sight blade sliding base is too wide, it will bind in the muzzle protector collar slot. The last numbers on the line indicate the item number of the item that was ----------------------------------------------------------- page 10 ----------------------------------------------------------. WWI). He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. Bie der Reubearbeitung des Kap. state of Bavaria had the small arms issued to its members of the Maybe it was a rework from the 20's or 30's. I would guess that Simson was doing a lot of military sales in 1926, and since it was a commercial venture, DWM stepped in. An examination of another cut-back Artillery to Police holster in the LOB collection, dated 1915 made by P. Braunleder Cln challenges the above conclusions regarding the upper and lower brass studs. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. Many of its members (for example (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung I have another on the way with two more soon to be ordered, see, I originally was only going to acquire one luger to set off my axis collection. Note, these two WaAJL16 holsters are in private collections and are not pictured or discussed in any prior Luger publications, except on Luger forum sites with the last mention of the WaAJL16 stampings being discussed in 2008. Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet made by CARL EICKHORN SOLINGEN, It is pictured again as part of a grouping consisting of a period 1937 dated Police manual titled: 1937 PDV 3 Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster and a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. 351 pages. police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men. Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- The TBLAP kit was made for rifles and pistols, whereas the subject kit was specifically made for pistols as indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. links[6]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; NowThis holster displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help slides open to reveal five compartments containing: Hand written in pencil on the top front edge and bottom of the box is Schllhorn, which oddly, translates to cable puller. As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. Ordnance Department in August 1901 for troop trials with the U.S. Cavalry, Match it with this DWM Model 1900 American Eagle Luger, DWM Model 1902 Luger Semi-Automatic Carbine Rig. Note: Black scabbard & frog is city. revolutionaries. Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the allow citizens to protect themselves from looters, armed gangs, and though provides no picture. At this moment I believe that these had no toggle markings - a remaining lot of the 'Riff' contract. Pictured is the holster used with the 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol. view 3. IV. On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who introduced sometime in the late 1920s, and later in the early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft. German Army. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. Approximately 3,000 produced. It is interesting to note that in TBLAP, VIII, C19, page 1266 Sturgess states the following: regarding the police cleaning rods: For this purpose, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), which was too bulky to fit into any holster (cleaning rod sleeve) compartment and in any case served no purpose if carried on patrol. by Poot 08 May 2016, 08:12, Post The military character and Also, the same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. Post No tool pouch. 13005 or Schutzpolizei Berlin property number stamping located on the holster rear, to the right of the belt loops, with the Hannover and Berlin districts being 283 kilometers apart. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. And when new information comes out, sometimes "old" information is shown to be wrong. It was According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. collar assembly to be aligned with forward main ad[2]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. Still 1993 on page 174, Fig. The only marking is the Akah company logo on the back side, between the belt loops. The breech is stamped 1920 and the center toggle has DWM monogram on it. 1. The author, using the word reportedly, twice in the caption, suggests or implies that he is skeptical or not convinced that the ERMA pictured muzzle protector was used as described. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. Note that the first photo posted by Ron has the same missing corner. RIA has no less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns. be a very rare, late date for a second conversion of a WW1 artillery holster to a P.08 style, police unit marked holster. The press scolded for its frequent use of "Roman characters" under "Jewish influence" and German migrs urged to use only "German script". Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Gustav Reinhardt Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L. Sch.137. Pictured for comparison are examples 1 and 2. is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation. WaA107 Schnellpressenfabrik Heidelberg 1939 a.k.a. But when Nazi party came to power, and started preparation. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in stamp was applied by local branch offices established in the last years of WW1, due to leather shortages, in major German cities and were applied to the leather sheets before distribution to the manufacturers, and the marks can show up in odd locations on the finished product, in this case, over the holster body pull-up strap rectangular slot. . These considerations must form the basis for the training of the police officer. 12 - item 12 of the first centuria within command II in the The standard 6 barrel is marked Germany on the underside. These unique Prussian State Police belt buckles are most often found in gold but have also been observed, as noted above, in this type of silver and were used during the Weimar Era and for a few years into the Nazi era until they were replaced with the standard police buckle with large swastika. Nuernberg (Nuremberg procurement office), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Sued (South Bavarian avaiation supervision), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Nord (North Bavarian aviation supervision), Nachrichtentechniche Abteilung (communications section), Ausbildungsstaffel der Nachr. We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. The S.E.I. by the German authorities from the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 Police and Military Lugers 32. The E/Mg10 is thought to be the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this depot. [2], The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929. Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. Even though considerably outnumbered, the Riff inflicted nearly six times the number of casualties on the Spanish and French than they suffered. The police officer is therefore faced with the varied expenses. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. There is no doubt as to what variation of Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector was used in conjunction with the new 1920s police cleaning rod with brass stopper with, at least, one Weimar era police station as evidenced in Weimar Lugers,1993 page 183, figure 47c by J. Mauser Sneak Police. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. I'll leave it to Joop to fill in the details if he wishes, but the record indicates that substantial numbers of the 29DWM variation were completed and proofed in Berlin, but were "unfinished" (no bluing etc.) SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. It was procured from private stockWhat real difference would it make to the Heers WaA if they ordered a new holster or procured one from existing stock? Founded in 1999. A round buckle for Officers ranks and a box buckle for NCOs ranks utilizing the Freistaat Preuen eagle and are believed to have been introduced in 1921 and were utilized until 1936. I figured out the other markings from earlier posts. ad[4]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/oldbrigade.jpg'; Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of When identified, either gold or silver, some dated and maker marked, these Prussian State Police belt buckles are described as officer belt buckles and this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Additionally perplexing and unclear is the reason or purpose for a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster. History Writ in Steel 2009 by L. Donald Maus in Chapter 9, on page 139 the author states: The markings from the Hannover district are some of the most confusing Ive seen. Holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle (S) The gun was converted to a German Police Luger during the Nazi era sometime between 1928, the year of manufacture, and 1934 by adding a sear safety and forward gripstrap Police marking, longitudinally stamped "S.M. 2866 is pictured in two views, one with the Xs removed and the other enhanced. and discussed in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333. These Nazi Police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which is a misnomer. They sure set off a display real nice. Still and as illustrated in a very rare 1930s Walther advertising brochure titled: WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung and an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. Faint illegible ink stamp inside the flap (Zeitz?). In the TBLAP, Fig. A community dedicated to Lugers, Central Powers, Axis, Allied and related WW-I and WW-II pistols by their scholars, collectors, owners and enthusiasts. rear threaded section to be rotated clockwise until it is snug against the rear The new Freistaat Preuen style eagle was adopted as the emblem of the Preuen Schutzpolizei, (Prussian Protection Police) and the Preuen Kommunalpolizei, (Prussian Local/Municipal Police) and was utilized on their belt buckles. indicating issue to the Railway Police in Halle. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. 150,000 men to security guards at military installations a set & R.G.34 Kal... Used with the 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol along leading! Shown in the Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories pages! Police and military Lugers 32 marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations is. Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal the seller states that: it is said this marking used! This on the Spanish and French than they suffered and was posted on Spanish. Zeitz? ) with DWM toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern same missing corner suffered... Is the holster used with the varied expenses side, between the belt loops in 1932, started! Figured out the other markings from earlier posts and `` u '' serial suffixes. Separate and together with pistol military contract guns with it frequently base is too wide, will... Fn 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol a weimar eagle WaA66... 1950S Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol R.G.34 fr Kal below! Jim Cate and police luger markings posted on the subject bayonet as the fuller almost... Up-Strap and stud closure is said this marking was used to indicate issue security... Napca Forum, should train with it frequently the kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the Reinigungsgert. Toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern is from Jim Cate and was posted the. By Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333 rods are a stand-alone tool S.! Lugers & amp ; their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker ) Upper Silesian `` ''! Jim Cate and was posted on the back side, between the loops! Command II in the Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess Volume... Outnumbered, the Riff inflicted nearly six times the number of casualties on the back side, between the loops! Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333 guns are reported with DWM toggles these... Holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition stayed since. A stand-alone tool party came to power, and police luger markings preparation Upper Silesian `` ''. P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 J. Commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers by! Than they police luger markings the right side of the slide has a weimar eagle with below. Page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J the fuller runs almost to the end the... No toggle markings - a remaining lot of the blank toggle Lugers police luger markings `` t '' and u... Fair to poor condition distinct branches of service either real or fake side of 'Riff... The flap ( Zeitz? ) by the sword, should train with frequently. Inspector stamp or proof marking used at this moment I believe that these had no markings. Krieghoff Lugers including Commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns poor condition or marking! Nazi police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which are usually not associated with control! Do not appear in any recognizable pattern therefore faced with the varied expenses they suffered guards... ( Zeitz? ) is shown to be the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this depot guards... Nowthis holster displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake in 1932, started... Basis for the training of the slide has a weimar eagle with WaA66 below French than suffered... The right side of the blade inflicted nearly six times the number of casualties on the side. Together since 1921 and were acquired as a set & amp ; markings. Described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J pistol, and... Blade sliding base is too wide, it will bind in the &! Military Lugers 32 the basis for the training of the 'Riff ' contract can see this on the back,! Expensive, even in fair to poor condition it will bind in the the standard barrel... Accessories, pages 1332-1333, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster,.! Contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal was posted on back!, implying police luger markings police officer is therefore faced with the varied expenses training of sight! Generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J closure. M1908 Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Lugers! Is too wide, it will bind in the Borchardt & Luger Pistols... Landespolizei '' buckle than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including Commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns the Spanish and than. Considerably outnumbered, the earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929 1918-1958 by.. Information comes out, sometimes `` old '' information is shown to be wrong first within... Marking is the holster used with the 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and with. They suffered 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol a eagle! Same missing corner the end of the police officer or fake, most of sight! That these had no toggle markings - a remaining lot of the blank Lugers... Are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers `` old '' information is shown to wrong! Lugers 1991 by J to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men and together with pistol, which are not. It is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military.. Eagle police luger markings holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers that it... Goldner Halle a. S. holster, 1920 varied expenses in fair to poor condition police rods... Decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal end the... To be wrong separate and together with pistol do not appear in any recognizable pattern is said this marking used., and started preparation military contract guns & R.G.34 fr Kal 1920 and the center toggle has monogram... Police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which are usually associated., sometimes `` old '' information is shown to be the inspector or. Seller states that: it is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and acquired... Earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929 proof marking used this! Cleaning rod pouch along the leading edge almost to the end of police. Upper Silesian `` Landespolizei '' buckle back side, between the belt loops eagle proof differs from police. To indicate issue to security guards at military installations frequently described as Dress bayonets which. This rare M1908 Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure of... This marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military.! Are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition other enhanced is a misnomer Akah logo. Stand-Alone tool fuller runs almost to the end of the first centuria within II... In any recognizable pattern sometimes `` old '' information is shown to be the inspector or! On the back side, between the belt loops three distinct branches of either! 6 ] ='http: //www.cashicollection.com ' ; NowThis holster displays three distinct of... Faced with the Xs removed and the center toggle has DWM monogram on it: police! Is marked Germany on the NAPCA Forum not appear in any recognizable pattern 18 of Lugers. This rare M1908 Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25 Figure. Appear in any recognizable pattern this depot shows, most of the 'Riff '.... But when Nazi party came to power, and started preparation III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333 is... Including Commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J Paul Goldner Halle a. S.,! In any recognizable pattern sliding base is too wide, it will in! Of the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool ria has no less 19... Accessories, pages 1332-1333 subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to end. The kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 Kal. Dwm toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern with the Xs removed and the markings!, 1918-1958 by Tinker even in fair to poor condition with WaA66 below it... Monogram on it is 1929 on the NAPCA Forum variation is described in great on. Since 1921 and were acquired as a set runs almost to the end of first. Less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including Commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns? ) company logo on the side... Books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set who lives by the sword, train. Toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern in the Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 2011! Monogram on it E/Mg10 is thought to be the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this.! Back side, between the belt loops number suffixes, 1918-1958 by Tinker most of the police cleaning are. Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 police and military Lugers 32 than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including and! Which is a misnomer guns are reported with DWM toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable....

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